Talk:21st August 2010 - The worst floods in the entire history of Pakistan

Comments on World Events <comments />


Mark said ...

The prophets were spot on about us seeing catastrophies of such a massive scale. The next 2 years are suppose to be the worst. I sure hope people find kindness in themselves to help others any way they can through volunteer or donation because many will need help. All territories of the world are facing some natural occurence. Let's be prepared to mobilize quickly.

--Mark 06:25, 22 August 2010 (BST)

Bigfoot said ...

People think that time travel is impossible...yet they mostly think that the coming events cannot affect them because when they die they don't come back to the Earth. How cruel can one be to procreate and then tell their children...it is your problem son/daughter...when I die I won't be coming back. I was shopping in Wallmart the other day and over heard conversation between an employee and a elderly couple. The employee was bragging to them about her 14 grandchildren. I thought she acted so proud/unknowing.

--Bigfoot 18:44, 22 August 2010 (BST)

jesus goldfarb said ...

"Of course, all Earth humans are equally to blame for our current population" ---- Are they? I have no children, therefore I am not contributing to the problem. Billy Meier has children as well as many members of FIGU. I wish these FIGU people would practice what they preach instead of talking like hypocrites.

--jesus goldfarb 21:11, 22 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

Jesus, I think you may have a good point on the one hand. It's initially a bit unfair of me to place the blame equally on all humans. However upon further contemplation my logic is sound. Does simply existing and adding to the population cause us to take the blame? Not really, we are not in control of whether we are born or not. Should it be a case of only those who have children are to blame? No, we can reduce the population even with 3 children per couple (by requiring that several prerequisites are satisfied before procreation is permitted, for example). Perhaps the blame should be laid at the feet of governments whose job it is to protect us? No, because the people grant power to the government and can take it away. Or the media companies who encourage sexual irresponsibility? No, because they only affect a subset of the population. Or the religions that are against contraception? No, same reason. Answer this: Who were responsible for the Nazi atrocities during World War 2? The Nazis or the people of Germany who voted them into power or, through inaction, failed to ensure that they stayed out of power? I would say the adults of Germany in 1932 were to blame. Since overpopulation is a current and escalating problem we should all take the blame and responsibility until we have averted from our dangerous course. We all need to take action against overpopulation and it is irresponsible not to do so. Only children can be deemed innocent in my opinion.

--Jamesm 00:50, 23 August 2010 (BST)

Cat Johnson said ...

A tragedy on immense proportions. I'm saddened to my core on what we're doing to our beautiful earth.

I sit here in my lovely home, unable to comprehend what those people are going through. What can I do? I'm passing this information from Billy on to as many people as will listen.

--Cat Johnson 02:33, 23 August 2010 (BST)

jesus goldfarb said ...

Jamesm.

Naturally, I must disagree with your logic on this matter.

The nazis of WW2 were a corrupt political movement that few in germany could have foreseen or stopped.

Overpopulation is a problem that has little to do with votes or elections. It's a personal choice that people make, or in my case a choice that I don't make.

A person cannot have children and then tell other people not to breed without looking like a total loser. There is no sound logic in being an apologist for such hypocrisy. Merely mistakes and learning.

saalome


--jesus goldfarb 07:38, 23 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

Jesus perhaps blame is the wrong word to use, but perhaps it is more certain that we should at least all take full responsibility for reducing the population to a sustainable level. Where should the blame lie for our current situation? That's a big question. Can you help me answer that question, please?

On the other topic of having children, are you saying Meier and FIGU people with children are hypocrites for having children when they say that others should not have children? If so then you misinterpreted their message. They (FIGU) never said people should not have children. FIGU have proposed that we reduce the population, to at least 2 billion but half a billion is better, through a global birth control programme that could involve alternating periods of procreation-permitted and procreation-forbidden. Do you still think he is a hypocrite?


--Jamesm 00:32, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Neckel said ...

Dear Jesus,

I have no children.

Not many but only a few members of the CG in FIGU have children, the majority is single and are adults. The reason why some have already children is also because they came to FIGU already when having the children. And James is correct, the number of children should be minimised to 3 at max per woman, and also only persons/couples who are able (financially, to provide the education and psychologically) to raise children, should get some. Of course you are right when you say that you do not conrtibute to the problem :) this is already something, but this does not change anything in the world situation right now. If this (at max 3 children/women/suited couple) is not applied globally there will be no success.

Also many environmentalists, or persons who are worried about nature, are trying their best to save it, but this will never stop climate change and the destruction of the flora and fauna until world wide measures are taken. They are certainly doing the beginning and their best, for what i say my thanks to them, no question about that, but it has to take a wider scope to be successfull. (f.ex a change in the economic system is needed or in the way of living of us all)

Salome

--Neckel 08:20, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Schantz said ...

James,

While I totally agree with you article, I don't agree with your very conservative number of 100 million homeless and hungry. Unfortunately the numbers are much higher.

Maybe this was a typo error on your part? If not, can you provide a source for this low estimation in my opinion?

I know you mean well, but I think the problem is much worse than what you stated.

Thanks

Schantz

--Schantz 22:45, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

Schantz, 100 million was a conservative guess. What is a probably more accurate figure in your opinion for deaths this century due to natural catastrophes? I noticed that the article What is announced comprehensively for the third millennium prophetically and predictively mentions millions will lose their lives but I don't know of any other article which could help me with a more accurate or precise number.

--Jamesm 23:02, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Ufofacts said ...

Blaming one person for the current situation and not oneself is not correct. Think about it the next time you get into your car, go to the toilet, throw your rubbish into the bin, buy new wooden furniture.

All this contributes to the problems. The fact that there is too many humans on this planet is why when ever we do the above mentioned and other things we all contibute to over loading the system.

Jesus, is your mother and father to blame for pro-creating you?

I know persons who did not know about the overpopulation problem before they had children. This is not their fault. We have been told not only by Meier but others for decades now about the overpopulation problem but the powers that be suppress this information.

So if you want to blame someone or you feel it necessary you should blame the persons in possitions of power who through their own stupidity hide the facts. Thus persons do not get the information and get mislead down a dark path.

Salome

--Stephen Moore (User "Ufofacts") 23:40, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

Schantz sorry I'm deluding myself. I mentioned 100 million refugees in the article and it was just a guess. What do you think is more probable?

--Jamesm 23:45, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

I think I get confused now and again. Perhaps I need to meditate more!

--Jamesm 23:46, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

Stephen I think I agree with your comment. I realised it was wrong to blame everyone equally and so I amended to article appropriately. I'm going to research this more to find out Billy's opinion on where the blame lies.

--Jamesm 23:48, 24 August 2010 (BST)

Ufofacts said ...

Hi James

My thinking is if a person knows about overpopulation and then tries to hide the facts then he/she is more to blame for the problem because they add to the problem with their hiding and falsification of the facts.

Thus the problem does not get better but gets worse because nothing is done to solve the problem or put the problem on a path to a resolution.

For some help for you to read about Billy's opinion you can try the following

The Crime Against All Life

"Generally the average human beings on the good Mother Earth do not know what monstrous damage they cause to nature and the planet itself with their overpopulation, because they are fooled and deceived by those responsible for the world, indeed by the governors and the scientists.

So the majority of Earth humanity also knows nothing about how climatic warming has very much worse and more monstrous catastrophic results for the Earth, its nature and for all life, than the persons in charge officially announce through inadequate information. "

[[1]]

"And the origin of everything is overpopulation, which, however, neither humanity nor the responsible scientists, authorities and governments want to accept as true.

The more humans there are, the bigger become the entire environmental problems of interpersonal relationships, humans living together, illnesses, epidemics and criminality as well as wrongdoing and wars, and so forth.

And what is resolved, and eventually implemented, regarding climate protection and so forth, ends in a farce because the responsible ones are so stupid that they cannot think into the future, consequently, they do not see that their resolved and perhaps implemented measures, are only a drop of water on an ever increasingly hot stone.

That is therefore so, because, in the time in which the measures eventually become reified, Earth's population increases by hundreds of millions again, and thereby naturally also all the problems, whereby the implemented measures to protect the environment already become worthless before they have even only begun.

All the responsible ones are too stupid and narrow-minded to recognize that help in regard to the protection of the environment can thereby only be provided when the resolved measures, or the measures yet to be resolved, for the protection of the environment and the protection of the climate, and so forth, are only useful in association with a regulation for a global halt to births.

But as long as this is not recognized and is not implemented, so climb the problems of the destruction of the environment, energy problems, illnesses, epidemics, criminality, wrongdoing, wars and family dramas, absent interpersonal relationships, race-hate, xenophobia, hate between and among humans and religious hatred and so forth."

Of course there is much more about overpopulation, to much to flood this page with.

Also I would just like to say that I am not saying this is Billy's opinion on overpopulation and who is to blame. But he speaks harshly about the persons in possitions in power etc.

Hope this helps

Salome


--Stephen Moore (User "Ufofacts") 00:03, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Selena said ...

Hi Ufofacts.

I have a question for you. What do you do, when everyone you tell about overpopulation and the need for population reduction through birth control, becomes angry and offended? I have warned many people and almost everyone reacted in this way, accusing me of being against life, baby hater, against peoples right to found families and pass their legacy onto their children, ...., accusing me and telling to other people of me being crazy, eventually not even wanting to talk to me anymore. People also tell me that I am for population reduction only because I have no children on my own. These people certainly didn't pass the information about overpopulation any further, and by telling people that I am crazy, nobody else wants to talk to me anymore.

What do you do then? Are you also then, what You said: "If a person knows about overpopulation and then tries to hide the facts then he/she is more to blame for the problem because they add to the problem with their hiding and falsification of the facts.

Thus the problem does not get better but gets worse because nothing is done to solve the problem or put the problem on a path to a resolution. "

I don't have children of my own, and don't intend having them, but can't spread the info about overpopulation. So, am I still being blamed for the problem of overpopulation, just because people don't want to listen to me?

--Selena 20:32, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Schantz said ...

Hi Selena,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. You may be planting seeds in people that may take years to bear fruit.

I would rather state the facts and offend people, than to say nothing. To know that more children, more humans, and all life on planet Earth will suffer the consequences of the growing overpopulation catastrophe, and do nothing is unacceptable to me. If I'm offending people or they think I'm crazy and won't talk to me anymore then so be it. I have also experienced the same reactions from people as stated above.

This is the choice I've made for myself. I'm doing it for all life, including humans whether they appreciate or not.

If you can't take the negativity that comes with speaking about the overpopulation problem, then maybe you could find another outlet to inform people.

--Schantz 21:33, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Dave said ...

I agree with you. Ordinary people, as well as those in charge, are to be blamed equally. 1)The government failing to acknowledge overpopulation and its ongoing devastating impact. 2)Ordinary people through greed, religion, and ignorance (especially in these days of WWW)

--Dave 21:36, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

I have had a bit of a read again of Overpopulation Crusade and The Crime Against All Life and understand better now.

Here are those who are to blame:

  • The governments and scientists are to blame in great part for their lack of willpower to inform the people of their effect upon the Earth. This could be due to reasons such as more people = more spending = more taxes and profits = higher GDP (they think it will never end)
  • The relief and charity organisations that do not urge correction of overpopulation where it is needed are also to blame.
  • The religious and sectarian organisations who irresponsibly promote procreation are to blame.
  • And those who are irresponsible in their thoughts and actions in general contribute to the problem. I see this as those who :
    1. are greedy for more profits or taxes (corporations/politicians paid by corporations/business owners)
    2. are against contraception for petty reasons (selfish and stupid people)
    3. do not care about the consequences of not using contraception (due to alcohol/drugs/stupidity/uneducated)
    4. think they need children to support them in old age (poor people)
    5. want big families for the fun factor (stupid people)
    6. want their own offspring to overcome their loneliness (selfish single females)
    7. do not want to consider adopting orphans (selfish, stupid or racist people)
    8. want children for sexual playthings or for selling into slavery or banditry (paedophiles/slavers/selfish people)

Have I missed any?



--Jamesm 00:18, 26 August 2010 (BST)

Ufofacts said ...

Hi Selena.

I have no children and also do not intend to have children. Its not that I would not like to have children its because I know of the overpopulation problem. So if I was to have children now when the Earth has almost 8 billion humans on I would be truly a hypocrite.

I am a member of a group called The Circle For Humanity along with 25 other persons from around the world. I myself, have sent letters and emails to various politicians, charities, and all the major media companies in the west aswell as some national media companies. For example, BBC, Sky News, Bloomberg, ITN New, ITV News and so on. I never recieved one reply from any of them. So you are not alone in when you do not make any progress with your own efforts to try and educate persons about overpopulation.

Last year I sent a letter to the now british prime minister David Cameron. The letter contained one of Billy's text - A Road Towards Humanness. This letter also contained evidence about food shortages, water shortages and climate change with links to scientific and non scientific information and studies. I never recieved a reply from him or any member of his political party. Recently, the past week or so, he and his wife had another child. Not a very wise man.

I have not had anyone getting angry with me when I speak about overpopulation, sometime I think they just dont comprehend what I am saying so they say nothing.

If persons dont want to listen then its not your fault. You have tried. We he who study BIlly's material are often not heard or taken seriously because earth humans are still locked into beliefs, scocial idealogies, egos and so on. They fear anything that threatens their way of life, beliefs and thinking. They do not consider the information. So it is a up hill struggle for us sometimes.

Salome


--Stephen Moore (User "Ufofacts") 10:40, 26 August 2010 (BST)

Selena said ...

Thanks Schantz, Dave, Jamesm and Ufofacts! Much appreciated!

It is hard for me to understand why doesn't any of them, who you guys, those from FIGU and BEAM have sent letters, hundreds of them, never receive any reply. Why is that? Are they intentionally ignoring those letters, or they don't even bother to read them? I would think that at least one of them would read the letter and send a reply, but no one does. Or did somebody? It seems to me like some kind of globally spread conspiracy, by the authorities everywhere, against those who support BEAM and his teachings. I have read somewhere on this site that FIGU sent a letter of support to global warming guru Al Gore. Does anybody of you guys knows if they have received any reply from him? Thank You!

Saalome

--Selena 19:32, 26 August 2010 (BST)

Jamesm said ...

Selena I do not know if FIGU ever received a significant reply from any authorities but I'm doubtful.

The majority of the politicians and leaders of our world are currently quite corrupt as I'm sure you will agree unless you've been living as a hermit for all of your life. The prophet Jeremia, son of the High-priest Hilkis (Hilkias) at Anathoth described our modern politicians quite accurately when he predicted thus ~2550 years ago:

The human being will consider himself to be the Creation, and especially the rulers as well as many mighty ones holding power will demand eternal life. They will be the ones who get hold of all the positions in high offices and the best land, as well as all the most beautiful women and men, in order to make them their immoral objects of pleasure. The poor, the old and the weak will be treated like inferior livestock, and their miserable huts and buildings for the old and sick will be like evil smelling prisons, where they will lie in a stupor and decay. And profound fear will, like poison, consume their, as well as every other human being's thoughts, feelings, hearts and heads (consciousness). All of this will also rest on a craving for profit and power and a craving to practice usury, for this will be an obscure and secret society controlled by laws and regulations, and its laws will be hatred, and revenge, and its weapon will be the poison, through which comes the craving for gold and money, belongings and possessions, lust and vice, as well as pleasure. Predictions of the Prophet Jeremia

--Jamesm 21:53, 12 September 2010 (BST)

Markvd said ...

Selena, Jamesm and Jeremiah are correct. At this point in time the I before we attitude prevails. The only real time people are genuine is when the trouble has come. They or most in power would rather just live for the moment but forget to plan ahead for future generations outcomes which they will also be a part of. We are a wrinkle in time that eventually will steer our goals so everyone can find purpose in the development of their conscience. If by what you meant Selena was if they don't respond to your letters. My guess they are not too fluent in English literature or they are swamped and listen to German literary works first. I think they should call Asket one more time and get the universal language translator gizmo for maximum communication capabilities.:)

--Markvd 00:14, 13 September 2010 (BST)

SilverFirefly said ...

I disagree with imposing restrictions on procreating via laws. Each and every human being has a human right to procreate responsibly, and each and every one of us has a choice to act responsibly. It is not for others to dictate how many children we can have, when we can have them and the conditions we have them under. Nature has its own way of balancing things out via - guess what - natural disasters etc.

--SilverFirefly 07:46, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Zameen said ...

to firefly. please go back and read the information on the suggested birth cessation idea because you obviously haven't read it. NO one said that anyone had to stop giving birth or who gets to give birth. you must come to this table with a neutral positive and open mindedness and without pre-conceived notions about what they are trying to say.

--Zameen 21:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

SilverFirefly said ...

Zameen, I have read it and I understand perfectly. I still stand by what I say, we do not need artificial laws to regulate human procreation. There are natural and universal laws for that in the form of balance. You guys, including Billy Meier do not understand how Life really works. Trust in Source and in yourself, that this so-called overpopulation is being managed from a higher level.

Hawaiian 22:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC) What Source---Religion?----overpopulation being "managed" by a higher level----this is an illogical statement! How can overpopulation be a "manageable" process, mis-managed is more appropriate and to assume some "higher level" will actually engage in some non-sense is stupid!

It's not a problem. It will all balance out. People here do not need to interfere by imposing unnecessary rules. It is already being taken care of. In fact, what Billy Meier is suggesting originates from Ego, which he needs to transcend. Ego is something I understand very well, and I will never support what Billy Meier is suggesting. I'm a human being, who's chosen to live Earth lifetimes, and I have basic human rights. I have the right to reproduce when, where and how I see fit. Don't like it? Not my issue. I will not support this petition, not just because of me, but also for the future children I'll have, and their children, and so on. We already have enough crap going on in this world we don't need any more, and this is just another back-door into more egoistical crap.

Hawaiian 22:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC) Again, you speak with chaos and illogical assumptions, OVERPOPULATION is in itself UNBALANCED behavior at the least because the planet Earth can only idealistically support 520 million humans without depleting its resources based on available arable farming land areas.

Billy's suggestions come not just through logical reasoning, but also from the Plejarens themselves who also lead by example by limiting their population on Erra, a planet of similar size as Earth to around 520 million humans.

The only problematic "EGO" appears to be you and your mindset, to hell with everyone else, so long as you exercise your basic human right, which is to breed as you see fit!

Hawaiian---I don't have any kids or plan to have any and that mindset certainly DOES NOT come from some "higher level" source but logical thinking without the EGO or some ridiculous religion dogma.

--SilverFirefly 04:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Jamesm said ...

It will all balance out you say, SilverFirefly. Yes but with human suffering that makes WW2 pale by comparison.

--Jamesm 13:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hawaiian said ...

Hey, don't feel too guilty about overpopulation, even our more so called "advanced" counter parts, the Creator Overlords and their counter parts had problems with overpopulation!

None-the-less, Earth humans should take heed of the carbon dioxide collapse that recently occurred due to overpopulation on a planet 5 light years away.

--Hawaiian 18:54, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Zameen said ...

your comments about birth are just the same as the Vatican's "go forth and multiply" and let the worlds resources just absorb each and every new child, not your problem right? Well what if its one of your children that becomes a victim of starvation and/or homelessness, or both and develop cancer because he/she didnt have thew resources available to help them? this happens all over the world because of irresponsible and delusional minded people who put the strain of their greed on the everyone else. which is exactly to the tee, what you plan to do. Now who exactly is displaying their ego/ass now?

--Zameen 19:30, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Markvd said ...

I like to think of having children as an extension of ones self and how responsible they are. You only weaken yourself BEING by acting in such ways. If you have 1.5 billion plus people displaced then that clearly shows lack of organization, leadership, ability to use logic and reason. How can we be trusted to wield even greater capability? It's rather simple here on our little blue planet because once we learn of something that is profitable then we tend to lose our way. We will suck every resource and extract until no more remains necessary to sustain for future generations. If we don't mature fast enough we will be wearing masks every time we take a step out of our homes. I hope the world leaders wield there might wisely because time is not waiting for anyone.

--Markvd 22:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Taka said ...

SilverFireFly - Your a typical example of a human who does not consider anyone apart from yourself.

--Taka 02:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

SilverFirefly said ...

Look, you can argue with me until you're blue in the face and accuse me of being selfish, etc for wanting kids of my own without others interfering. That's fine, that's to be expected because most people LOVE to control. Doesn't mean you're going to control me and others like me. The reaction to my last post smacks of Ego and it's normal to insult and put others down for speaking out when the illusion of control is in danger of being broken, because that's how Ego operates. But you guys do not have to be that way. Read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle for more information on this.

But I think of it this way, it's not the so called over-population that's the issue here. It's these fat cats who abuse the earth for their own gains, i.e. world leaders, gas/oil companies, etc. It's ordinary people who are too ignorant and fearful to stop enabling these fat cats. How about we stop abusing the earth and ourselves? We can do this by not polluting it, by not manufacturing the crap that we eat, by not depleting the earth of resources because of inefficient methods of keeping warm, providing light, travelling, etc - and these are just examples, we can do a hell of a lot more than that to improve the situation we have in the environment. Then we might find that the so called over-population is not a problem after all. These disasters we've been having lately is not a result of over-population, they are a reaction by Gaia to the abuse we've been inflicting on the planet (pumping too much CO2 in the atmosphere, being careless with oil spills, for example). Stop voting these fat cats into power and start focussing on the REAL issues. Mother Nature will take care of the rest.

There is a such thing called abundance, which the Universe absolutely supports, and there really isn't a shortage of anything, but we do have to learn to adapt. We know that we're using up the earth's natural resources, and they will replenish themselves - given time, but we will never be short of light, warmth, food and water as long as we stop the greed and we learn to adapt. We need to adapt by finding alternative methods which are more efficient and does minimal damage to the environment and to ourselves, and we need to stop making these methods too expensive for the general population to use, and start using them ASAP.

I do not trust any being that calls for us to start controlling others, because higher level beings who are truly from the Light do not operate that way. Therefore I do not trust the information that Billy channels. Billy and the beings he channels immediately lost credibility with me as soon as I read about this population control crap. A channel can only receive information based on his own belief system, and belief systems of any kind are not a great thing. The information Billy channelled told me a lot about Billy and the beings he channels. Only beings similar to our vibration (and lower) would advocate control over others, and therefore is not to be trusted. Belief does not equals true knowledge of Universal Truth. Belief systems need to be dismantled in order for us to find the Universal Truth. We can only stand in our own Universal Truth when we do this. Fortunately there are people out there doing this already.

--SilverFirefly 19:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Jamesm said ...

SilverFly thanks for your response. I haven't read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle and I'll look for it soon.

You say the natural disasters we've been having is Gaia's response to our mistreatment of it. I agree, but if we weren't on this Earth in such high numbers there wouldnt be so much CO2 being pumped into the atmosphere in the first place would there? If you think we aren't overpopulated then why do millions die of hunger every year around the world? Are fat cats truly to blame for their suffering and death? Capitalism? Materialism? How about lack of resources being the main cause? A lack of enough fertile arable land to grow enough food. A smaller population would have a much smaller risk of going hungry AND wouldnt have to rely on imports/charity.

Furthermore I for one do not want to live in a high rise block of flats. My country is full of them and I'm fortunate to live in a semi-detached house. If the population isnt curbed soon then most of us will be forced to start living in blocks of flats like bees in a hive. Is that ideal living?

--Jamesm 22:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

SPARKY said ...

send this letter to the churches around the world

--SPARKY 03:43, 18 December 2010 (UTC)