Above: the ET origin of the CSETI logo.
"peace is impossible without truth" - CSETI Director Dr Steven Greer
Below is a brief but informative correspondence between Vivienne and our CSETI coordinator. The first entry provides context.
Dyson's subsequent emails to CSETI can be read here.
From: "Raven"
<reps@disclosureproject.org
>
To: <reps@disclosureproject.org
>
Cc:
<dpreps@disclosureproject.org >
Subject: [DisclosureProjectReps] A request
Date: Wednesday, 16 March 2005 2:56 AM
Hi Everyone:
I am passing the word along to all of you that we had a meeting with Dr.
Greer recently and it is now mandatory that whoever is a Disclosure Rep
needs to also become a CSETI member. A good portion of you already are, but
for those of you who are not, you will need to set that up. Debbie will be
sending out a follow up e-mail to help you with that. In order to fully
understand the ET reality it is important to understand the concepts put
forth in CSETI. Also there is a message list that people can exchange ideas
on. We want to keep the DP list reserved for exchanging ideas related to
presentations and other networking info.
Thank you for all of your efforts and good work.
Sincerely,
Raven Killidar
DP reps coordinator
(Debbie wrote - 4 hours later)
Thanks, Raven
................................
For the DP reps who are not CSETI members yet, membership
information is
on the CSETI web site at:
http://www.cseti.org/members.html
and
http://www.cseti.org/member/morder.htm
has the options for membership levels.
CSETI members and the member's email list are a great resources..
We even have a couple of the DP witnesses on there.
You also become a member if you get a training kit or attend a CSETI
training.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Debbie
dfoch@disclosureproject.org
----------------------------
gaiaguys@nor.com.au
wrote:
Name on Credit Card: Vivienne F Legg
Visa or Master Card Account number: xxxxx(deleted for security)
Expiration Date: 11/05
Amount Paid (US Dollars): $ $80.00
Telephone Number: -
Address:
Vivienne Legg & Dyson Devine
775 Upper Coldstream Rd
Tyndale 2460
New South Wales
Australia
--------------------
Thanks Vivienne and Dyson!
We appreciate your support! We really need DP reps to be members and
read the membership materials and understand more of what the
organization is about, and what they're committing themselves to and
connecting with.
I'll be sending out the membership packets and CSETI information in the
next few days.
The credit card charge on your statement will say Disclosure Project,
but it's for the CSETI membership.
Take care,
Debbie Foch
From: "gaiaguys"
<gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
To: "Debbie Foch"
<coordinator@cseti.org >
Cc: "Michael" <michael@theyfly.com
>
Subject: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Saturday, 23 April 2005 2:19 PM
Hi Debbie, (Vivienne here)
re: "the rigor of science" and "peace is impossible without truth"
As you know we've just now gotten around to checking out the CSETI
members-only material as a result of the Disclosure Project requiring its
representatives to be members. It's hard to imagine we've been promoting the
DP for over three years now(!) So far it seems that we haven't really learned
anything more from the CSETI material than we had understood from reading
Extraterrestrial Contact, which of course we read and gratefully devoured at
the start. We had hoped to discover now that there had been significant
relaying of information from the ETs that you were keeping from the wider
public for some strategic reason. Did we miss something? I must share my
thoughts with you, and I sincerely hope you'll consider them in the spirit I
am offering them. (I know Dyson will also be communicating much of this to you
as well.)
As you know, we have been, and we remain, extremely impressed with the
Disclosure Project material because of its sheer breadth, depth, corroborative
and scientific value and what it reveals about the Earthly power bases at work
playing a huge role in holding back our evolution. We remain frustrated and
baffled that people continue to ignore and neglect it. We remain extremely
grateful for all the effort that Steven and the rest of you have put into it,
feeling often moved to tears as we have attempted to share it with people on
our handful of information nights and many, many hours standing at markets
with our publicity fliers. We have a great deal of sympathy for the position
you have all been in because of our own long term whistle blowing work. We
know how unbelievable such revelations are for many people. We know how lonely
it is and we know about the ridicule and the corruption of the media. We know
about lack of support and lack of resources! We also know about the extreme
importance of persisting.
Right now we are entering a pretty intense phase in our own efforts to expose
those shadowy networks (the same ones, it seems) who are not only subjecting
children to horrific ritual abuse here in Australia but are occupying various
top positions in Australian Government, media , business etc, as they are
elsewhere.
www.gaiaguys.net/EOCV.BracksHullsSzoke.htm
You may be interested to know that there have been two instances that we are
aware of in which activists trying to expose these people in relation to child
ritual sexual abuse have had phony ET abduction experiences, the timing
demonstrating that the intention was to terrify and discredit these people.
This of course adds to Steven's assertion that the hoaxed abduction phenomenon
is connected to "fringe religious groups" and involves horrifying schemes that
the ordinary person can not imagine because of the degree of depravity.
We're now actually starting to deal with these people directly in that they
are launching audacious legal actions against us, which actually is helping us
demonstrate that they aren't just our head noises(!). Anyway, it is largely
because of our experience that we were able to appreciate and accept the
information revealing the extraordinary machinations behind the scenes
controlling this topic and understand that that, in large part, is the value
of the Disclosure Project revelations. We did buy several copies of your books
and studied them well, as you would hope. We have always striven to relay the
information exactly as it is and have been dismayed and incredulous at the
apathy and lack of concern for this from others. We have frequently thought
how maddening it must be for Steven and the rest of the core team to come up
against this. This leads me to the crux of my issue.
While absolutely sticking by what I have just written and reassuring you that
we will continue to promote the enormously valuable wealth of corroborated,
document-supported evidence that is the Disclosure Project, I can not imagine
a sensible reason why CSETI has completely neglected the Meier case and it's
wealth of evidence and information about, and provided by, extraterrestrials
-" the best available evidence proving ETI presence" - evidence and
information which can be logically scrutinized, tested, and studied, and which
provides a breathtaking depth of intelligent teaching on that most important
topic of spiritual reality and evolution - the spiritual evolution we need to
be able to have in order for those meaningful relationships with
extraterrestrial friends and relatives to occur with ordinary citizens, and in
the shorter term, to save our planet from this escalating destruction. You
claim CSETI is at the forefront of real time UFO research. Well, not without
studying Meier's case, you're not.
www.theyfly.com www.figu.org
Have you read the bits and pieces of commentary provided just in the last
couple of month by the Plejaren extraterrestrials to Billy?
www.gaiaguys.net/specialbulletin16.htm
Have you, for instance, discussed the little (110-120cm) light green
"corrosive" (six-fingered) ET people who visited Switzerland early this year
and left their hand prints etched deeply into the paintwork of Meier's son's
car?
http://www.figu.org/de/figu/bulletin/50/aetzender-besuch.htm
We are also very concerned and disappointed that Michael Horn has had no
response from you or Steven to his appeal for reason on this matter. Have we
misunderstood? Have you misconceptions about the Meier case that the three of
us can help clear up for you? CSETI claims to be on the cutting edge of this
topic. Your stated goals and appeals for the highest, selfless efforts towards
understanding and peace with our cosmic neighbors are very noble. And we have
been very inspired and impressed with this. But now that we are quite familiar
with the Meier case, having studied it for a couple of years we find CSETI
extremely remiss. People coming to CSETI to learn the truth will be misled by
your incomprehensible omission. Please let us know if we have misunderstood
somehow. Are you aware just how much knowledge of all kinds is provided by
Meier and the Plejaren and others through them including the enormous historic
context of ET involvement you need to understand to get on the right track
with relationships with ET? Are you aware of how much of it actually does
correspond with CSETI's conclusions? What about the parts which don't? Are you
avoiding it all, as we fear, not out of ignorance but because of resistance to
its various unpalatable (to many) messages? Of course you know very well that
liking or approving of information is secondary to scientifically examining it
and acknowledging that it exists, and what it corresponds to in reality.
We sincerely want to assist CSETI in coming to know the Meier material so that
all your good intentions can be enhanced by that wealth of knowledge and vice
versa, but until you do that CSETI is lagging way, way behind and is seriously
misleading those seeking the truth. We know that you have had really powerful
close encounters. (Meier's core group has had craft of various kinds
photographed right in the yard. Really, at times it's like grand central
station over there!) But unless we're mistaken, you have not yet been provided
with say, OM - The Book of Truth which, in our judgment is exactly what the
Plejaren say it is - logical, spiritual (non-perfect) teaching relayed once
again in uncorrupted form for Earth humanity, not by gods or angels, but by
spiritually advanced, but not perfect or elevated, teachers. This is no "New
Age mushy-mindedness". Have you read my introductory articles for English-only
readers?
www.gaiaguys.net/GodsHuman.htm OM is in German as is a great deal of
Meier's Plejaren-cultivated wisdom. Have you German-language people on your
team? Have you received from your encounters, for instance, detailed
astronomical information and data regarding nature catastrophes and predicted
future political and natural events on Earth? And what about information about
how many ET civilizations are occupied with Earth and who's aligned with who,
and who is doing the crop circles, and so on?
www.gaiaguys.net/ptaacropcs.htm (This one quotes Steven.) Meier has
enormous detail about why there is the ET resistance by religion, something
Steven touches on only very peripherally. It is dynamite.
Debbie please do get back to us on this. The Meier material is so immense,
wise and intelligent and shines so much light on our Earthly situation at so
many levels that we will be increasingly promoting it above all else, but not
to the exclusion of all else. Michael Horn, at Dyson's urging has had the good
sense to provide a link to the Disclosure Project from his web site,
recognizing the value of all that corroborative testimony and government
documentation, ignored by so many UFOlogists who have various agendas to
protect. It's of enormous value for those who can't see why one "Swiss Farmer"
should be "believed" and it sheds light on how and why that case has been so
cleverly distorted and twisted by the powers that be. Meier's case is very
well presented for the English world by Michael. Do you own a copy of And
Still They Fly? As I said, it goes way beyond what CSETI has so far and can
immediately be shared with everybody. We know you have a copy of Michael's
DVD, which you said was "very interesting". Has Steven seen it yet?
In the name of attempting to provide the uncensored available truth about our
extraterrestrial visitors we will be morally obliged to point out CSETI's
omission to the traffic that comes to our site. It is the only rational,
honest approach for us. As I said, we will continue to give the Disclosure
Project prominence on our increasingly popular site, as we have consistently
done since we discovered it. If CSETI doesn't include the Meier case in its
study and presentation and give it the prominence it deserves then I will have
to withdraw my support and membership, and formal DP representative status.
We know that your focus is on real time, face to face, citizen-ET contact, but
your title, Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, implies a
far broader definition, which cannot, in the name of science and openness, and
being "Dedicated to the Furtherance of our Understanding of Extraterrestrial
Intelligence" leave out the Plejaren.
Peace in Wisdom, (as we Meier supporters like to say).
Vivienne
From: "Debbie Foch"
<coordinator@cseti.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au
>
Cc: <reps@disclosureproject.org
>
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Saturday, 23 April 2005 3:12 PM
Hi Vivienne,
We are teaching people to do the contact work for themselves and not
rely on other people. The Billy Meier materials aren't appropriate for
us to use as witness materials in the Disclosure project since we are
using only military and government witnesses.
I can see why you must think we're so behind in CSETI. Have you actually
had ET encounters yourself, though?
Have you read any of the members section of the web site? Have you
discussed ET encounters with other members on the message board?
Dr. Greer has the DVD that Michael Horn sent, but I haven't gotten a
chance to talk to him about it since we've been dealing with other
issues and he lives 150 miles away from me.
I understand if you both want to withdraw your membership and DP reps
status. I agree that would be best.
I can give you a partial refund.
Take care,
Debbie
From: "gaiaguys"
<gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
To: "Debbie Foch"
<coordinator@cseti.org >
Cc: "Michael" <michael@theyfly.com
>
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Sunday, 24 April 2005 9:48 AM
Dear Debbie,
Thank you for getting back to me.
We're not suggesting, nor does Meier, that people continue to rely on others
for ET information and contact. On the contrary. The sooner we are all mature
enough to experience this the better. Individual responsibility is a principle
teaching of the Plejaren and Meier. What we are saying is please don't
wilfully ignore the available information that a far more advanced individual
has already gained this way for the benefit of all of Earth humanity, and
which reflects profoundly on your undertaking.
From my email you will see that I know what the Disclosure Project is for and
promote it as such. I didn't ask you to include the Meier material in the DP
package. It is CSETI as a whole, The Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial
Intelligence, to whom I appeal to include this material.
Our top priority is to promote peace, wisdom, knowledge, love, truth and
understanding on Earth and with our cosmic neighbours. We do not assume that
we personally would serve this purpose best by having one-on-one ET
encounters. If they thought differently, I'm sure they'd let us know.
After-all, they know who we are and where we live. The available wealth of
information provided by ETs needs to be shared and studied and acted on as a
priority. Does a U.S. diplomat for China turn up to meet Chinese officials
without having studied the available information about their culture and the
historic background to the relationship? Of course not. How irritating it must
be for ET people to have provided so much and to have those who seek peaceful
relationships with them simply ignore it in favour of having a one-on-one.
I can only assume you really do feel that the real time experience is more
valid over all. Perhaps such a special experience makes it hard to take an
overview. I admit, it sounds very appealing. As a matter of simply working
physically closely with Meier on the task of getting Meier's information out,
many FIGU members and visitors to the Centre in Switzerland have had very
close encounters with the various craft that come by. But, it is understood,
that these ET people get out and meet Meier, or he gets in and they meet,
because he has the very long term training, maturity, responsibility, wisdom,
perspective, lack of egotism and the very great burden associated with
receiving what, as you know, is extremely sensitive material. There are
logical reasons for this approach that become more apparent as one studies the
material.
Yes, we have read the members section of the CSETI website. What have the ETs
said to you? Who are they exactly?
Since your intention seems to be to pursue one on one Earthling -ET
relationships in isolation of the bigger picture you really should reflect
that intention in the name of your organisation.
What about simply a link to the Meier case, so that people can judge for
themselves? We're pleased that you have one to the Crop Circle Connector.
I know Dyson is still studying your lists, does NOT want to lose his DP rep
status, and, if I may, I'll take another look in the spirit of being better
informed.
Best wishes,
Vivienne
From: "Debbie Foch"
<coordinator@cseti.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au
>
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Sunday, 24 April 2005 10:10 AM
Thanks, Vivienne,
I'll consider putting a link to the Meier web sites. We don't link to
many sites. We have one to the crop circle web site because of ET
contact research in crop circles in the past (and hopefully again in the
future).
My ET contact experiences have been in the dream state, and during
meditations, as well as some high strangeness events.
A lot of CSETI members are able to remote view onboard craft and
interact with the beings onboard. I haven't done that yet, as far as I
know. We've seen triangular craft fly over our group at orbital
altitudes but very large, and many other interactive events.
We haven't had physical onboard experiences (Dr. Greer did when he was
younger) but sometimes there are experiences of bilocation or a craft
being on the ground with us but dematerialized around us yet some of the
parts of the craft are visible through their high energies (they look
like glowing/pulsing astral energies). It's not safe for the ETs to
land and interact with us due to the military's sensor network and laser
and particle beam weapons that shoot them down. For now, it's a matter
of us learning to interact with them on this subtle energy and
consciousness level, and they show up more physically when they can by
flying fast through the sky or other ways. The chapter in the ET
contact book about the Night Time phenomena (some things aren't always
at night, though) has a list we compiled as of 1999 - it's still pretty
good - probably could add a few things when we get a chance.
We're promoting the team concept (as described in the membership
packet), and these teams around the world initiating contact.
We need to take this to the next level, beyond individual contacts and
individuals who bring back messages. We're learning how to interact with
the ETs and understand the nature of their reality and the cosmology.
Take care,
Debbie
From: "gaiaguys"
<gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
To: <coordinator@cseti.org >
Cc: "Michael" <michael@theyfly.com
>
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Monday, 25 April 2005 4:49 PM
Dear Debbie,
Thanks for your consideration about a link and for providing more detail about
the CSETI experiences.
I hope to do more with this in the future.
Best wishes,
Vivienne
From: "Debbie Foch"
<coordinator@cseti.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au
>
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Monday, 25 April 2005 5:03 PM
Thanks, Vivienne,
Take care,
Debbie
From: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au>
To: "Raven" <reps@disclosureproject.org>
Cc: <csetimembers@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: message from Vivienne
Date: Monday, 30 May 2005 4:06 PM
Dear Raven, Debbie, and CSETI members,
Vivienne here . For those who don't already know, I'm Dyson's other half.
Sadly, this is my first and last posting to the CSETI list.
Raven's message asking us to step down as DP reps was not unexpected, of
course, but we have a few points that need airing in the spirit of moving
forward. (I was not intending to remain a rep actually, since I can't
support CSETI any longer.) Firstly, we have been pushing Meier for almost as
long
as we have the Disclosure Project. This is the first time anyone of you have
raised that as a problem. Of course we have not been promoting Billy Meier
as DP reps. But your grievance with us over Meier concerns more than
what could be fixed by some clarification on our website.
It is only recently that we became aware of how hostile CSETI is to the
Meier case, requiring that we challenge this position. Of course we didn't
expect that to be entirely welcome. I want to take the opportunity here to
reiterate that our actions regarding this have been to try to get CSETI to
understand what it is doing, to help people understand what the Meier case
really is, and why rejecting the Meier case is very unwise and unscientific.
We have not wanted to harm or annoy CSETI or the Disclosure Project.
Unfortunately CSETI has done this for itself. And it apparently remains
quite ignorant of the content of the Meier case, despite taking this
position against it.
You too naturally have a right to do what you choose, but in the name of ET
enlightenment we cannot let the hypocrisy go unnoticed. (We have recently
read all the CSETI information about itself, as a result of the compulsory
membership.) Given all the discussion regarding Meier with Debbie and on the
CSETI list it is rather odd that this is the first time CSETI's objection to
it
has been made so unambigously.
After all, we were led by Debbie to believe that a link might be made to it
on the CSETI web site, and that it was "very interesting". We're glad that
CSETI's position has now been made clear.
And yet, no-one has said on what grounds Meier's case has been rejected.
What are the objections? Are they scientific?
Please try to understand that the Centre for the Study for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence is thwarting the promotion of just that by obstructing
knowledge of Billy Meier's case, which does provide the necessary scientific
foundation for rational investigation of the information the Plejaren and
others provide through them. As we have said repeatedly, like it or not, the
bigger picture is necessary for any smaller project to proceed in the right
direction. We are disturbed that CSETI seems intent on focussing on only
those elements of ETI that it likes, and then, as far as we can tell, with
little interest in applying the scientific method.
This is not science and it does not promote the truth.
We are also disappointed to find so little information available on the
website and on the list about what actually has been achieved by CSETI in
the past two or three years, and how the information has been processed.
After all, we assumed that this was what we were being forced to join in
order to learn.
We will continue to promote the Disclosure Project material, as we have
ceaselessly done since we learned of it, because it is scientific,
corroborative and of prime relevance to related projects and our future
survival. And we remain hopeful the CSETI will sooner, rather than later,
realise that it should at least alert people to the Meier case for the same
reasons.
We wish you all the best.
Vivienne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raven" <reps@disclosureproject.org>
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au>
Cc: "Debbie Foch" <dfoch@disclosureproject.org>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:23 AM
Subject: DP rep
> Dear Dyson and Vivienne:
> It has recently come to my attention that your website may contain
> information that may not necessarily be in line with what we are trying to
> accomplish with the Disclosure Project. You certainly have every right to
> do what you want, but we are concerned that it may misrepresent what the
> Disclosure Project stands for.
>
> Given that, if you want to continue your website with its current
contents,
> we ask that you please disassociate yourself with the Project. You have
> been reps for some time and I don't want to really have to do that, but
> after much discussion and then a number of complaints from the CSETI
members
> regarding your push of Billy Meier materials, we will have to ask you to
> please step down.
>
> I wish you all the best on your endeavors.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Raven Killidar
> DP reps coordinator
>>