Talk:Petition For Controlled Birth Stop

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== Discussion ==Hawaiian 21:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)Good day Jamesm and Phenix, this petition is a step in the right direction, hopefully more logical people can embrace it for a well abused Earth and biosystems caused by far too many humans. There are many negative forces that strive for the "status quo" in regards to energy and control of human consciousness via stupid religions and power lust individuals, the task is daunting and I do admit at this conjure, we could use some intervention from our ET friends. Maybe all we need to do is to ask and see what they say? Is the Peace Meditation occurring every weekend not just the 1st and 3rd of each month?

Jamesm 00:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC) This line is the first comment.

Phenix 06:44, 20 December 2008 (UTC) Great work, Kamerad James! And so timely! - praise and honor to Creation, indeed; the Peace Meditation shall be particularly neutral-positively charged this evening.

Looking forward to the insights of the forum and to the eventual definitive draft. My traditional Christmas and New Year Postcards and E-cards stand ready. I shall keep the text i submitted to you, that is:

"Dear..

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

I hope...

Gentleman/Lady/Comrade,

Everything needs management, including ourselves and our number. Nothing is endless and requires rational use, including earth's resources. The shortages of clean water, food, minerals and other basic life' s items, pollution and the destruction of the environment are nowadays more obvious that never before. We, Humans, put too much stress on Earth. Our number is way too great.

Be aware of overpopulation and of the threat of overpopulation to our own well-being and the harmony of this planet. And ultimately to our survival as a species.

Take action, make a difference, help us!

Add your voice to our overpopulation awareness campaign and support our world wide birth control initiative.

Please, go to:

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

and sign our petition.

This petition will be sent to the world population awareness organization, other majors international organizations and to all responsible people of our world, who make decisions directly influencing our daily life. Let's shape a responsible future now. We owe that to our children and the children of our children. We owe it to Mother-Earth.

Thank you."

Kamerad James, other Kameraden, Your corrections(also regarding the language) and suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Jamesm 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC) I've made a major modification. I have inserted the main portion of http://us.figu.org/portal/SocialIssues/ACrusadeAgainstOverpopulation/tabid/102/Default.aspx above the Population Growth Charts, corrected the spelling so that it conforms to UK English and removed the previous section on Required Worldwide Measures (which was actually copied from http://us.figu.org/portal/SocialIssues/BirthRateCheck/tabid/104/Default.aspx ).

Jamesm 03:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC) I'm more satisfied with the petition now but I still need to read the entire thing! The length of it will put some people off but I think it is needed in order to present a full picture of the overpopulation problem.

Phenix 08:22, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Greetings, James, I hope you are doing just fine; thanks for your work.

The insertion - straight away, at the beginning of the petition - of the consequences of overpopulation, which people might feel and even experience in their daily life, and the strong underlining of the direct connection of the two, is a bright idea.

While working further on the 'backgroungs information' leading ultimately to the definitive version of the petition, i would suggest to leave the first draft of the petition open to discussion until December 24th, morning; and from there, to use that draft - with eventual corrections, additions, suggestions of the forum - as a provisory, 'work draft'.

This would be in order to make optimal use of the opportunities of Christmas and New Year to start the awareness campaign, through the traditional 'good wishes postcards, E-cards and letters'.

Looking forward to your assessment.

Salome, Adam.

Jamesm 12:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Yes good idea Phenix, let's leave it as it is now until the 24th to give people a chance to read it.

Phenix 13:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC) Thanks again, James.

Well, "alea iacta est!", i would say.

Salome, Phenix/Adam

Hawaiian 07:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC) Very disturbing numbers, seems like World Wars 1 and 2 had little effect in slowing down these numbers. Would be interesting to see which countries have the most impact on world population as it appears more developed nations tend to level off while poorer ones explode. If true, then maybe mandatory sterilizations should be geared toward those countries along with sterilizations of rapists, killers, pediphiles, drug addicts and other non-disciplined types of the more developed nations. Just wonder if some ET's can help us out by some technology to "zap" ones gonads, starting with the undesirables??? :)

The majority of Earth humans are just plain ignorant and currently not capable of adhering to these measures however logical it appears. They will continue to multiply like rabbits, so with a little "help" from our friends would certainly appear rational.

Phenix 08:21, 23 December 2008 (UTC) Good morning Hawaiian,

Thanks for your insight.

The global situation is indeed rather alarming, specially if one agrees that all is strongly connected:

Shortage of almost all first resources (drinking water, food, oil… other vital items) and the therefrom resulting poverty; inequality; hunger; spiritual stagnation; despair... and subsequently crime; massive immigration; economic migration and ecological refugees; 'hatred towards foreigners'; terrorism; wars... not to mention the destruction of the environment.

Earth needs to recover; the natural resources need also time to renew themselves. We are not allowing both. Alas.

Overpopulation is hence likely to become one of the most important and - perhaps - the most decisive questions and challenges in the coming times for the whole humanity, politicians and other decision makers in the first place.

So i thought that it would be wise and wishful to see this issue humanly and responsibly managed by 'progressive forces', in place of some 'right-wing' and similar parties and groups.

As for a possible solution, to answer to the second part of your contribution, the startingpoint and philosophy here are to equally address all countries and nations, that is that a worldwide rational birth control should be decided and equally implemented and enforced.

Help from our extraterrestrial friends. Considering the gravity, the urgency and indeed the complexity of the situation - as you rightly pointed it out - such a step would certainly be welcome.

I however do not think that they should "help us out by some technology to "zap" ones gonads, starting with the undesirables??? :-)" [:-)]

A spiritual and maybe logistical support shall be enough; we ourselves shall do the rest, responsibly and humanly.

There is actually a petition open, where the assistance of the Plejarens is asked, on the grounds of the earthly rules and laws of humanitarian intervention: http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/9474.html?1229127606 ; my post 165(member Phenix).

Your support would be highly appreciated.

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Good morning, James, Hawaiian and all Kameraden,

We shall then proceed as we agreed.

A list of web addresses of organizations, ministries, organizations and other personalities - who could help our cause - is following.

I would suggest:

A/ to send Christmas and New Year postcards, as information about this petition, to organizations and ministries;

B/ to send Christmas and New Year postcards, with a call to join our awareness campaign by signing our petition, to individuals;

C/ to send each 100th or 200th signed petition to the abovementioned organizations - or any other number of signed petitions.

THE LIST:

- UN and UN General Secretary, currently Mister Ban Ki-Moon: http://www.un.org/; http://www.un.org/sg/;

- World Population Organizations: http://www.wpf.org/nederlands ; http://worldpopulationbalance.org/; http://www.populationinstitute.org/

- World Population Awareness: http://www.overpopulation.org/; http://www.wpf.org/organisation)

- Ministries of Family and Population of all African Countries: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTAFRREGTOPGENDER/Resources/gov_contacts_3.pdf

- Ministry of Family and welfare Bangladesh: http://www.google.com/search?q=Ministry+of+population%2C+health+and+family+bangladesh&rls=com.microsoft:nl:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SUNA

- Honduras: Ministry of Family and Population: http://www.paho.org/English/DD/AIS/cp_340.htm ; Department of Population Planning: http://www.popcouncil.org/slr/techassist.html

- Websites of Population Council worldwide: http://www.popcouncil.org/slr/techassist.html

- Online(Dutch) Address Encyclopedia of World' Population related Instances/Organizations: http://www.socialsecurity.fgov.be/nl/links/staten.htm

- UNITED NATIONS POPULATION INFORMATION NETWORK(POPIN) - DEMOGRAPHIC, POPULATION AND FAMILY PLANNING WORLD WIDE WEB SITES: http://www.un.org/popin/other4.htm

- Website of the Activist on Human Affairs, Leader of the Band U2, Mister Bono - with his Direct Contact Address: http://u2_inspire.tripod.com/

- Mister Nelson Mandela Foundation: http://www.nelsonmandela.org/index.php

- Most Reverend Desmond Tutu: http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/Pages/profilefull.aspx?IndID=1971

- The Earth Charter Initiative - already endorsed by FIGU: courtesy of member Phi_spiral(Bob): http://www.earthcharter.org/

- Population Action International (PAI): http://www.populationaction.org/

- Population Coalition: http://www.populationpress.org/

- Population Connection: http://www.zpg.org/

- The Population Institute: http://www.populationinstitute.org/

- Growth Is Madness: http://growthmadness.org/2006/12/24/the-not-so-elusive-population-environment-link/

- Optimum Population Trust: http://www.optimumpopulation.org/

- ..etc...

Kameraden, I would suggest also to begin sending the first draft of the petition - the first, pretty short one - and to keep working ont the current petition(with background information), to which we would redirect interested people for eventual 'further readings'.

Here is also a site, where one has the possibility to send Christmas and New Year postcards in more than 8 languages. We just need to add a short call to join our campaign:

http://www.byki.com/free-ecards/global/?fc_c=695427x2571136x221046800&campaign=122208eCards

Looking forward to your idea, suggestions and ...actions!

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Greetings to you, James, to Hawaiian and to all the others,

We shall then begin.

If you don't mind, i will address the 7 first organizations and instances from our list, plus mister Mandela and reverend Desmond Tutu.

Succcess and Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) INFORMATION:

Two of the models we use:

A/ To organizations in general:

"Sirs,

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

May the upcoming days of celebration bring you love, health, inspiration, hope, success and joy!

I wish the year 2009 will see the realization of all your dearest dreams. May peace and harmonious progress be on Earth!

Thanks, Sirs, for your work, care and commitment for Mankind.

Sirs,

Your help is needed.

As we all know, everything needs management, care and sound policy; including ourselves and our number. Nothing is endless and everything requires rational use; including earth resources. The shortages of clean water, food, minerals and other basic life' s items; pollution and the destruction of the environment are nowadays more obvious that never before. We, Humans, put too much stress on Earth and are greatly responsible for the current state of affairs, for all is indeed strongly connected:

Shortage of almost all first resources (drinking water, food, oil… other vital items) and the therefrom resulting poverty; inequality; hunger; spiritual stagnation; despair... and subsequently crime; massive immigration; economic migration and ecological refugees; 'hatred towards foreigners'; terrorism; wars... not to mention the destruction of the environment.

Earth needs to recover; natural resources need also time to renew themselves. We are not allowing both. Alas. Overpopulation is hence likely to become one of the most important and - perhaps - the most decisive questions and challenges in the coming times for the whole humanity, politicians and other decision makers in the first place.

Sirs, please, be aware of overpopulation and of the threat of overpopulation to our own well-being and the harmony of this planet. And ultimately to our survival as a species.

Take action, make a difference, help us! Add your voice to our overpopulation awareness campaign and support our world wide birth control initiative.

Please, go to:

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

and sign our petition - it shall be launched shortly.

This petition will be sent to the World Population Awareness Organization, The Earth Charter Initiative( http://www.earthcharter.org/) , other major international organizations dealing with development and population and to all responsible citizens of our world, including yourselves and your noble organization, who make decisions directly influencing our daily life.

Let's shape a responsible future now. We owe that to our children and to the children of our children. We owe it to Mother-Earth.

Thank you.

Adam Izak-Sunna; Student. The Netherlands."

B/ To individuals and organizations i maintain personal/study/professional contacts with:

"Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

May the upcoming days of celebration bring you love, health, inspiration, hope, success and joy!

I wish the year 2009 will see the realization of all your dearest dreams.

Friends, Comrades,

I do have a concern.

We all know that all is connected. Everything needs management; ourselves and our number are not and can not be an exception. Nothing is endless and all requires rational use, care and maintenance, including earth's resources. The shortages of clean water, food, minerals and other basic life's items, pollution and the destruction of the environment are nowadays more obvious that never before. We, Humans, and the ways we go about life, put too much stress on Earth.

Earth needs to recover; natural resources need also time to renew themselves. We do not allow both.

Allow me please to share some personal experience and thoughts.

I do believe that the number of Human Beings currently on Earth indicates a state of overpopulation, specially in the specific context of the current mode of production - or should i rather say, 'exploitation' of this Planet and its resources - that is, this wild, aggressive Capitalism driven by greed alone. Were the goods, other life sustaining commodities, the product we ourselves produce or gain directly from Earth, responsibly and honestly managed; if our aims in this existence were spiritually more elevated(instead of the sole accumulation of money and other material items), there would certainly be no question of overpopulation the way it is now; for Mother-Earth is able to and is willing to take care of her Children - and does still do so. But in the current structure, our number puts lots of stress of Earth and its resources, for everyone wants still more and more and, as we all know, there are no limits to the 'accumulation fever' and greed has by definition no boundaries. Besides, Humans are not the only inhabitants of this Planet. There are other Life Forms having the same rights to be and to develop; Life Forms which are as necessary and dear to Earth as we, Humans, are: Flora, Fauna.

We are building factories and other human production facilities on lands, which should normally be reserved to agriculture, to the flora and fauna; we are destroying forests, polluting water and air... Flora and Fauna are being incessantly persecuted by us. I read recently in a scientific paper(i do alas not recall the name) and i saw more recently on 'Discovery Channel-Science', that honey bees are disappearing in horrifying huge numbers and sorts(and we all know the great role they play for the balance of our eco-system); the ice is dramatically melting(due in part to human irresponsible activities, like the tests of atomic and nuclear bombs underground and in the atmosphere!!!)... A couple of months ago, two ice-bears swam the whole way to the west coast(fjords) of Iceland, hungry and in despair, for there is no more ice they could live on. People used guns to kill!

We bear a lot of guilt here. Let's try to repair some of it; let's make amend for some of it. Before it is indeed too late.

Please be aware of overpopulation and of the threat of overpopulation to our own well-being and to the harmony of this planet. And ultimately to our survival as a species.

Take action, make a difference, help us - help Mankind! Please do take the lead; advocate and promote a worldwide rational birth control.

Add your voice to our overpopulation awareness campaign and support our Worldwide Birth Control Initiative.

Please go to:

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

And sign our petition - it shall be launched shortly.

This petition will be forwarded to the World population Awareness organization, the Earth Charter Initiative, ( http://www.earthcharter.org/), other major international organizations dealing with development and population and to all responsible citizens of this world, who make decisions directly affecting our daily life.

Let' s shape a responsible future now. We owe that to our children and to the children of our children. We owe that to Mother-Earth.

Thank you."

Here we go, Gentlemen:

Thank you for your inquiry.‏ From: inquiries (inquiries@un.org) Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:57:59 PM To: Izak-Sunna Adam (aepsilonm@hotmail.com)

Greetings from the Public Inquiries Team.

Thank you for your message which has been received at United Nations Headquarters in New York. We invite you to visit our website where you will find information about the work of the Organization. The following address will take you to a webpage with answers to frequently asked questions, factsheets and other public information material:

http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/

So far, so gut, thus.

Salome, Phenix/Adam.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Greetings!

Here is my report of the day:

I addressed the following organizations and instances:

1- wpf.org/nl; 2- World population Balance; 3- population Institute; 4- Population Action International; 5- People and planet.net; 6- population Council; 7- Frontiers in Reproductivity and health; 8-Canadian International Agency; 9- Ministry of Labor and Home Affairs of Botswana; 10- Ministry of Population, Social Protection and Entrainment of Madagascar; 11- Ministry of Gender and Community Services of Malawi; 12- Ministry of Women's Rights, Child, Development and Family Welfare of Mauritius; 13- Ministry of Gender and Family Promotion of Rwanda; 14- Ministry of Women Affairs and Child Welfare of Namibia; 15- Ministry of Women and Family Affairs(Office of President) of South Africa; 15- Ministry of Social Welfare, Gender and Children Affairs of Sierra Leone; 16- Ministry of Community Development, Gender and Children of Tanzania; 17- Ministry of Gender, Labor and Social Development of Uganda; 18- Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare of Zambia.

I shall address Mister Mandela and reverend Desmond Tutu before going to bed.

Tomorrow i will take on all French speaking countries of the World - starting with African countries.

SUGGESTION:

James, i will translate the definitive petition into French, Dutch, German(if needed) and Russian. I have a Kamerad, who could provide us with translations in Rumanian, Italian, Spanish and Portguese. I shall find someone for the translation in Swahili and Japanese - and will ask our Comrade Zhila-Creational for the translation in Farsi.

Maybe you could then open links for a choice of languages.

REQUEST:

Could someone help us with the Chinese, Indian and Arabic translations?

It would be properly appreciated.

Salome,

Adam.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Greetings to all,

INFORMATION:

The petition has been savely delivered to mister Nelson Mandela(nmf@nelsonmandela.org) and to reverend Desmond Tutu(tammy.buhler@hiv-research.org.za and info@tutu.org).

We shall proceed today as planned.

REQUEST TO JAMES:

Could you please post our very first petition draft( the short one) back and allow people to already eventually begin signing that petition by removing the warning 'Onder Construction: do not sign yet' on the page of the to-be-signed-petition: http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition ? - in the meanwhile we will continue working on the definitive petition( here:http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Petition_For_Controlled_Birth_Stop) and when we are through and satisfied, we would just post that definitive draft there, where it would be further submitted to signing.

Thanks and have a nice day.

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Jamesm 00:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC) Phenix, I do not think that the original one is explanatory enough of the facts regarding overpopulation. Do you agree with that?

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Guten Morgen Kameraden,

Merry Jmmanuel' Birthday, indeed!

I hope you have all celebrated this event in a good state of mind, spirit and body.

James,

Thanks for your warm wishes; i am deeply touched. I shall shortly send you a word at your email address.

Now then.

THE PETITION.

To answer to your question, James, i say and willingly agree with you that the first draft was not perfect and needs some serious work - what you are now responsibly and generously doing.

What i meant, is to have right now a 'work draft' ready to be signed; for although it is very important to properly establish the direct connection between overpopulation and the current state of our societies and of the environment, i would assume that every person who, after receiving our 'Christmas and New Year Call', comes to this site is already fairly convinced of the necessity to take global, rational action against worldwide overpopulation.

We shall give to those people the possibility to sign the petition straight away - for the chance is also big some of them, despite their good will, would not come back a second time, when our petition is ready; people are nowadays so busy!

We could inform them ( via a link or a warning note ) that the petition is currently being perfected - we could add a couple of lines provisory completing that petition ( a sort of 'foretaste' of what is coming up ).

I also think that a fairly short petition would be better, for people are in general alas not very patient and long texts discourage them rather quickly - a link could redirect people to 'Further Readings'.

It would also be good, if the link to the place where the petition can factually be signed is very clearly indicated on the website.

INFORMATION.

Here is a model of 'Christmas and New Year Call' in French - in case some members have to deal with organizations and/or individuals using exclusively the French language:

"Mesdames et Messieurs,

Joyeux Noël; Bonne et heureuse Année!

Puissent ces jours de célébration vous apporter Amour, Santé, Inspiration, Espoir, Succès et beaucoup de Joie!

Je souhaite que l'année 2009 assure la réalisation des plus chers de vos rêves.

Que la Paix et un Progrès harmonieux soient sur terre!

Merci pour votre travail et votre engagement pour le bien-être des peuples du monde.

Vous avez inspiré et vous continuez à inspirer un bon nombre de nous!

Mesdames et Messieurs, Nous avons besoin de votre aide.

Comme nous le savons, tout a besoin de soin et d'une bonne gestion; y compris nous-mêmes et notre nombre.

Rien n'est sans fin et tout exige une utilisation sage et raisonnable; y compris les ressources naturelles.

Les pénuries d'eau propre, de nourriture, de minerais, de matières premières et autres produits de premier ordre; la pollution et la destruction de l'environnement...tout cela est de nos jours plus évident que jamais avant.

Nous, les humains, abusons de la générosité de la terre et nous sommes considérablement responsables de l' actuel déplorable état de nos sociétés et de la planète toute entière, car enfin tout est fortement relié: Pénurie de presque toutes les premières ressources (eau potable, nourriture, pétrole… d'autres articles essentiels) et pauvreté; de là en résultent inégalité, famine, stagnation spirituelle, désespoir… et plus tard crime, immigration massive, migration économique et réfugiés écologiques, conflits sociaux et ségrégation, racisme, terrorisme, guerres… sans compter la destruction totale de l'environnement.

La terre doit récupérer; les ressources naturelles ont également besoin de temps pour se renouveler.

Nous ne permettons plus ni l'un ni l'autre. Hélas.

Le surpeuplement peut par conséquent devenir l'une des questions cruciales, l' un des plus importants et - peut-être même - des plus décisifs défis pour l'humanité entière, les politiciens en premier lieu.

Nous vous prions de nous aider à favoriser plus de prise de conscience du surpeuplement et de la menace du surpeuplement pour notre bien-être propre, pour l' harmonie de cette planète, et donc en dernière instance pour notre survie en tant qu' espèces.

Pourriez-vous, s'il vous plait, ajouter votre voix respectée à notre campagne de sensibilisation sur le surpeuplement et soutenir notre initiative mondiale de contrôle des naissances?

La pétition est à:

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

Cette pétition sera envoyée aux Nations Unies, à l' Organisation pour la Conscience de la Population du Monde, à l' Initiative de la Charte de la Terre, à d' autres organismes internationaux importants traitant du développement et de la population et à tous les citoyens responsables, qui prennent des décisions influençant directement notre vie quotidienne.

Mesdames et Messieurs, veuillez, s'il vous plait préconiser, supporter et favoriser un contrôle rationnel des naissances à l'échelle mondiale.

Aidez-nous à bâtir un futur responsable maintenant. Nous devons cela à nos enfants et aux enfants de nos enfants.

Nous le devons à la Mère-Terre.

Merci.

Adam Izak-Sunna. Les Pays Bas."

Ladies, Gentlemen,

Good luck!

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Greetings to all!

I dedicated the first part of the day to national matters.

I have so far sent the 'Christmas and New Year Call' to the following instances and individuals:

- Newspapers: NRC Handelsblad(sort of 'Dutch Wall Street Journal'), Volkskrant; Tribune, Groene Amsterdammer, Groenlinks Magazine( of the Dutch Green Party), Vrij Nederland, Metro, Ode, Integrand, Metro( free newspaper, most read in The Netherlands);

- TV: NOS(the official, first Dutch TV station); the TV programs 'Zembla', 'netwerk'(dealing with social issues);

- Instances: the Dutch Ministry of People's Health; the Dutch Parlement and Politics Watchdog

- Individuals: Mister Ruud Lubbers(former Dutch Prime-Minister and UN Official, known for his engagement for global issues); mister Jan Pronk( former representative of the UN in Sudan and very active advocate of human rights, cooperation and harmonious development worldwide); Mister Freek de jong( entertainer, a symbol of social engagement in The netherlands) and Mister Herman van Veen( musician, human rights activist; some say he personally knows and has been since inspired by Herr Meier.)

Have a nice day.

Salome,

Phenix/Adam

PS: James, i take your warning about the length of the post into close consideration - i have aready removed a part of the response i received from the UN and my Dutch text. Thanks.

Jamesm 21:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC) Phenix the assumption that the majority of people will already arrive here with the knowledge that action against overpopulation is needed on Earth is a rather large one and therefore unjustified. There are no indications to support that assumption with the exceptions of course for all people already aware of the issue via the FIGU messageboard.

Secondly, it would of course be highly desirable to finalise the petition for the intended signatories first (everyone) before having it signed. Asking people to sign a draft of anything is rather like signing a cheque and then having the numbers changed afterwards, i.e. deceptive. There is an urgency to the preparation of the petition but we need to do it professionally if we want the desired response. We could of course pledge that the main topics of the proposal, i.e. to reduce the population of the Earth in a controlled and humane manner to 529,000,000, will not change from the draft to the final version however it will still look unprofessional, don't you agree?

Thirdly your suggestion about the petition being too long and it would discourage people from signing it is a valid point. I agree that we need to move most of the text to a separate page and then direct people to that new page via a hyperlink. I shall make this change.

Fourthyl, here is the only other petition of the same subject that I have managed to find on the Internet : http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/reduce-world-population.html . As you can see it's very short, it also 3 signatures.

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Hi James,

Thanks for your reaction despite the obviously busy character of those Christmas days.

Thanks also for the link to that other overpopulation campaign petition; i have gladly added my signature to it - it feels good to know we are not alone on this issue.

I agree with you that not all people who get here are aware of overpopulation. I only meant people who would decide to log on this site after receiving and reading our 'Christmas and New Year Call', where the mean aspects of this campaign are briefly explained. Such people should have the chance to sign the petition when they get here. That is one point.

The other point. Certainly not all people are aware of the extent of the perspective of Herr Meier. That is just the point. It would be ideal if the whole program could be executed, but we are not there yet.

Prior to launching this petition, i made that point in one of my posts on our FIGU forum, namely that we shall proceed step by step: the first task, that is this very petition, is to bring awareness about overpopulation and to advocate a worldwide birth control. As to how to get there, how to rationally manage Earth population, we would submit the exhaustive program of Herr Meier; that is what i called our 'Jocker', our ultimate argument. Hopefully the world would choose the way indicated by Herr Meier.

Deception is not and should never be on the order. We need to clearly define the aim of this petition and clearly formulate it: overpopulation if real(our numbers); it has several human and environmental effects(our knowledge of human spiritual regression, wars..; our data about climatic catastrophes...); we must regulate births and the growth of Earth population to restaure balance of earth(our data); the solution is - for a beginning, right now - a world wide fair, scientific and applicable birth control. Please support us.

Our solution - as a further, desirable step - could be already found in 'further readings', where we would redirect everyone.

If you do not agree with this procedure, do let me know, so that i stop inviting people till we are ready.

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Jamesm 23:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC) Phenix thanks for your explanation. It does all make sense and is with reason. I would prefer it if you stop inviting people until we are ready with a finalised petition. I don't think it will take long to finalise anyway. Probably another week maximum.

By the way when you respond, please do not copy and paste in the tilde symbol &#126 4 times because it does not get translated into your username and date time as expected. You need to find the tilde key on your keyboard and use that.

Jamesm 23:43, 26 December 2008 (UTC) Phenix I've just realised you've already sent emails to many organisations so I've removed the "Dont sign this petition sign". What do you think of the new cut down version everyone?

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Good morning James, kameraden,

Thanks, James; that is some balsam on my heart! - i had some hard time with that 'do not sign yet' sign :-)

Sorry for the technical problem, as i submit posts: i do not copy and paste; i mistakingly have been making space after each '@#126;'.

The current version of the petition is good enough for me, as a temporary one; we shall keep on working on it.

I personally feel some strong urgency with this issue, James. Now that that sign has been removed, i shall continue - in a renieuwed state of Neutral-positivity:-) - to invite people and organizations i do not have work, study or personal relations with: this Christmas and New Year period gives me indeed the opportunity to address those people and organizations in a natural way, according to an established tradition, that is without 'Missionieren'(the warning and advice of Herr Frehner); without preaching and 'inviting myself' in the life of those personally unknown people and organizations.

Besides the whole information is already available in the current draft; it just needs some redaction, some artistic and technical adjustment and organization - that is, a formulation meeting the requirement of completion and professional formulation you rightly underlined; and that is precisely what you are currently doing and doing good. We shall improve ourselves and the petition as we go.

Hoping you follow my line of reasoning,

Salome.

Phenix/Adam.

PS: REPORT:

In the meanwhile, the 'Christmas and New Year Call' has reached: the Ministries of Sociale Action, Women Emancipation and Children Protection of Angola, Burundi, Burkina Faso, Cape Verde, Mali, Guinea, Mauritania; mister Johan Cruijff, Ruud Gullit, Thierry Henry; the branch of International Solidarity of the Dutch Socialist Party; the Dutch Office of Social Security; the Departments of Human Sciences of the Universities of Leiden, my own University(Erasmus of Rotterdam), the Free University of Amsterdam; CNN and BBC.

Today i shall address the ministries and other instances in charge of development and population of France, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Quebec and the rest of the French Speaking African Countries.

Jamesm 14:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Phenix your name still does not appear at the beginning of your posts on this page. Do you see your name or do you see the HTML code for the tilde symbol 4 times?

Phenix 15:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC) My apologies, James,

I understood only now what the problem was - i am absolutely green in electronc stuff! I thought i have been following the given indications. I went back and corrected all my entries.

Well, i hope this time it would properly work out.

INFORMATION:

The 'Call' has been successfully delivered at the Ministries of Population, Women and Children Emancipation(Promotion) of Niger; France; Belgium(both French and Flamand/vlaanderen); Canada and Quebec. The Population Index - on the Web; Princeton Education and the European Council.

Our 'Call' is also being currently discussed at: http://www.hemmelel.fr/blog/2007/04/06/pour-un-ministere-de-la-population/#comment-877 - a French site treating of social issues.

I shall shortly take upon the Republics of the Former Soviet Union.

Salome.

phenix/Adam.

Jamesm 16:54, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Thanks Adam, your name and time stamp is now working I see.

Thank you very much for contacting all these organisations. Your effort is undying however I still question the wisdom of sending out a request for support when both the petition and the request itself has not been approved or improved to a satisfactory state by anyone other than you and I. I was also hoping that we were going to involve the people on the FIGU messageboard before sending out requests to sign the petition? Do we also want to avoid giving recipients of the request/email the wrong or incomplete impression of the petition? Not to mention the effort involved in having to contact them a second time if required. Surely there is wisdom in this.

I've added the following paragraph to the Background section as I thought it was needed in order to explain the effect overpopulation has on migration, war, bloodshed and murder which is as important as other effects:

Overpopulation brings with it ethnic problems as well. Indeed, it actually induces them. It precipitates migration, war, bloodshed and murder. As a result of the world population's continuing growth, people are squeezed together ever closer, and the space for each person becomes ever smaller and more restricted. For this reason can situations not be avoided whereby inhabitants of various countries, tribes, religions, convictions, opinions, philosophies and outlooks increasingly crowd together only to infringe upon each other's personal space. Without fail, this type of close contact leads to friction, differences of opinion and arguments. These issues, in turn, automatically generate war, bloodshed, murder and migration. The migration issue alone leads to even more excessive, vicious, worldwide problems. For example, refugees do not simply leave their familiar homesteads merely to seek new ones within their own country. Instead, they flee to foreign lands and often to countries that are financially and economically more prosperous than their own homelands. So it transpires that thousands, tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands, even millions of refugees abruptly flee their homelands and swarm into foreign, more prosperous nations. In turn, these nations become swamped with foreigners, causing almost insurmountable problems. Countries that accept these refugees are forced to expend billions of dollars that are paid for by the "host nation's" industrious inhabitants through hard-earned funds from horrendous taxes.

Shall we set a target of 1 million signatures? If and when we get to 1 million should we present it to the UN, major charities and media channels e.g. TV channels, newspapers, magazines?

Phenix 18:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC) Hello again, James,

As you can see, i can access the site again.

I saw and appreciated your latest addition. It is useful, for it treats of matters people experience in their daily life.

The way we proceed, our comrades and the Message Board.

I assume that everyone is well informed of this initiative and of what we have been doing. Individual commitment and choice are the rules. Each member who wishes and is willing to contribute, correct, criticize and/or add personal perspective, knows where to find us. I believe many are closely watching the progress here; they would join in when that time comes - i know for sure that members like, for instance J_rod, Pathfinder-Hunter, kingman, Zhila-Creational( who would eventually help translate the final draft in Farsi, upon my request), are personally committed to this effort.

Idem for the Message Board. They would certainly intervene, whenever we make serious mistakes.

Approvation.

I personally addressed Herr Frehner with this idea; he gave warning and advice. That is enough for me.

You are truly a perfectionist! The current petition is just excellent, Mann! The information is complete and could eventually be deepened just by clicking on the links you have provided.

Addressing people and organizations now.

I am convinced it should be done now; it is Christmas and New Year times. And i thought that you have understood and agreed with my proposal to leave the draft open to the appreciation of our comrades till December 24th, morning, and from there on to start the campaign with what we have in term of draft, while working further on a final version. And yes, i just can not imagine how i would go back to all those unknown people and organizations a second time, with that final version of the petition.

It is all good, the way it is.

One million signatures would be excellent.

INFORMATION.

UNESCO, UNICEF, the French Institute of Demographic Studies and the Republic of Ivoiry Coast have received our 'call'.

Salome,

Adam.

Phenix 11:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC) Greetings, James, Kameraden,

INFORMATION

We have reached the Federal Ministry of Health and Family Welfare of India( resp-health@hub.nic.in ); then we followed this useful list:

Andaman & Nicobar Islands

Secretary health - Mr Rajendra Kumar IAS rajendra@and.nic.in Director, Health dhs@and.nic.in Director, Family Welfare dhs@and.nic.in State Immunization Officer simmno@and.nic.in

Himachal Pradesh

Principal Secretary , Health & FW healthsecy-hp@nic.in Director Health & FW health-hp@nic.in

Himachal Pradesh State Immunization Officer rch-hp@nic.in

Pondicherry

Secretary (Heath & FW) secyhlt@pon.nic.in Director, Health dms@pon.nic.in Director, Family Welfare dms@pon.nic.in State Immunisation Officer stateimm@pon.nic.in

Punjab

Principal Secretary/Secretary (Health&FW)pshfw@punjabmail.gov.in Director, Health dhs@punjabmail.gov.in Director, Family Welfare and dfw@punjabmail.gov.in

Andhra Pradesh

Director Health dir_health@ap.gov.in Commissioner/ Director Family welfare cfwhyd@ap.gov.in

Tripura

Mr. S K Roy: Commisioner/Secretary Health skroy@trp.nic.in Director Health dirhealth@trp.nic.in Director, Family Welfare dirfamily@trp.nic.in State Immunization Officer immunization@trp.nic.in

Delhi

Pr. Secy Health pshealth@nic.in Director Family Welfare dirdfw@nic.in Director Health Services dirdhs@nic.in

Madhya Pradesh

Principal Secretary/Secretary (Health & FW) upadhyay.mm@mp.nic.in Director, Health yrsharma@mp.nic.in Director, Family Welfare yrsharma@mp.nic.in State Immunization Officer bnchauhan@mp.nic.in

Karnataka

Pr. Secretary, H & FW psecy.hfw.karbng@kar.nic.in Director, H& FW dir.hfw.karbng@kar.nic.in State Immunisation Officer sio.hfw.karbng@kar.nic.in

Tamil Nadu

Secretary (Health & Family Welfare) hfsec@tn.gov.in Director of Medical and Rural Health Service dmrhs@tn.nic.in Director, Family Welfare dfw@vsnl.net Director of Public Health and Preventive Medicin dphpm@tn.nic.in

Haryana

Principal Secretary/Secretary (Health & FW) fchm@hry.nic.in Director general, Health dhs.dghs@hry.nic.in All Civil Surgeon of haryana dhs.cs@hry.nic.in

Maharashtra

State Immunization Officer,Maharashtra State Health Official simo-mah@nic.in Director, Family Welfare,Maharashtra State Health Official dirfw-mah@nic.in Director,Health,Maharashtra State Health Officials dirh-mah@nic.in Principal Secretary,Health and FW secyhfw-mah@nic.in

Chattisgarh

Secretary Health secy-hlth.cg@nic.in Director Health dir-hlth.cg@nic.in State Immunization Officer sio-hlth.cg@nic.in

Chandigarh

Chandigarh UT Secretary Health , Sh. Krishna Mohan hs@chd.nic.in

Gujarat

1.Principal Sec. Health- sechfwd@gujarat.gov.in 2. Commissioner, Heralth- cohealth@gujarat.gov.in 3. Sec. Family Welfare- secfw@gujarat.gov.in

Kerala

dmohidsp@kerala.nic.in DMO(Health), IDSP project. prsechfw@kerala.nic.in Principal Secretary, Health & Family Welfare. dfwtvm@kerala.nic.in Director, Family Welfare simoker@kerala.nic.in State Immunization Project, Kerala dhstvm@kerala.nic.in Director of Health Services

Orissa

orhealth@ori.nic.in Secretary, Health & Family Welfare dfw_or@ori.nic.in Director, Health & Family Welfare

Manipur

secy-health@man.nic.in Commissioner(Medical Health and Family Welfare) immunization@man.nic.in State Immunization Officer lpgonmei@man.nic.in Shri LP Gonmei, Comm(Health & Family Welfare)

Nagaland

Commissioner & Secretary ( Medical ) - Shri. Rajiv Bansal (IAS) nglmedsec@nic.in Director, Health dirhealth-ngl@mail.nagaland.nic.in

This afternoon we shall concentrate on Pakistan, the Scandinavian Countries and Luxembourg.

Salome,

Phenix/Adam.

Phenix 18:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC) INFORMATION

Our Call has reached all provinces of West Bengal; Pakistan; Bangladesh; the American Public Health Association; the Tehran University of Medical Sciences(public relations); The United Nations' Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific(UNESCAP); and through the Gender and Social Development Community of Practice and the Asian Development Bank we were able to cover Germany, Japan, Cambodia, then Bangladesh and Pakistan again, Indonesia, Mongolia, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Uzbekistan, Vietnam and North America.

We also opened a 'Blog' at "Sustainable Population", where our ideas are widely shared and our Call published: http://sustainablepopulation.blogspot.com/

The Scandinavian Countries and luxembourg will be addressed tomorrow.

Salome,

Adam.